1 00:00:11,860 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:11,870 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:16,910 --> 00:00:13,930 [Music] 4 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:16,920 [Applause] 5 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:22,630 [Music] 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:25,250 yes it's the skeptics own podcast 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:28,970 episode number 539 for the 17th of 8 00:00:34,090 --> 00:00:32,210 February 2019 reaches Saunders here with 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:34,100 you from Sydney Australia which 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:37,690 continues to be warm bordering on hot 11 00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:41,930 bordering on ah coming up on this week's 12 00:00:47,049 --> 00:00:44,390 show I speak to mark Edward who is the 13 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:47,059 author of the book psychic blues now 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:50,030 mark has recently expanded his book 15 00:00:55,899 --> 00:00:52,970 psychic blues and into an audio edition 16 00:00:58,420 --> 00:00:55,909 new content now mark is an expert in 17 00:01:01,210 --> 00:00:58,430 cold reading and mentalism the secrets 18 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:01,220 of the psychics the way that psychics 19 00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:04,630 appear to be able to read your mind or 20 00:01:10,210 --> 00:01:08,000 chat to the dead and Mark also has some 21 00:01:13,110 --> 00:01:10,220 news about an undercover operation which 22 00:01:15,850 --> 00:01:13,120 is just about to see the light of day 23 00:01:17,710 --> 00:01:15,860 following that I read from the pages of 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:17,720 the skeptic magazine the journal from 25 00:01:22,899 --> 00:01:19,850 Australian skeptics about an 26 00:01:26,499 --> 00:01:22,909 investigation into the so-called psychic 27 00:01:29,139 --> 00:01:26,509 James Van Praagh now this is just one of 28 00:01:32,469 --> 00:01:29,149 the thousands of articles and items and 29 00:01:34,569 --> 00:01:32,479 reports you can read for free in the 30 00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:34,579 pages of the skeptic magazine going back 31 00:01:39,819 --> 00:01:37,280 nearly 40 years I think you'll find this 32 00:01:42,190 --> 00:01:39,829 a very interesting report coming up a 33 00:01:44,740 --> 00:01:42,200 bit later on in the show then we catch 34 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:44,750 up with the diet skeptic manually Noble 35 00:01:50,349 --> 00:01:47,240 who tells us about her recent adventure 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:50,359 in becoming a editor for guerrilla 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:52,850 skepticism on Wikipedia what is the 38 00:01:57,429 --> 00:01:54,770 process she went through how was it 39 00:02:00,959 --> 00:01:57,439 wasn't difficult and Mandy will tell us 40 00:02:03,489 --> 00:02:00,969 about a page she has been working on 41 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:03,499 concerning somebody who has sadly died 42 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:07,310 called the wellness warrior now she was 43 00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:10,850 famous for advocating the taking of 44 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:12,950 alternative medicine over conventional 45 00:02:18,820 --> 00:02:16,550 medicine for her cancer then to round 46 00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:18,830 off the show its main art yes main ads 47 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:20,720 back with Maynard spooky action he's 48 00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:22,660 going to be telling us about an upcoming 49 00:02:28,150 --> 00:02:26,510 DJ gig he has in Sydney because apart 50 00:02:29,860 --> 00:02:28,160 from being a nice reporter here on the 51 00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:29,870 sceptic zone or a cub reporter as he 52 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:32,060 likes to call himself may not of course 53 00:02:35,810 --> 00:02:34,050 is one of Sydney's top DJ 54 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:35,820 he's going to be doing a gig in the 55 00:02:41,510 --> 00:02:37,770 suburb of Glee which is near the city 56 00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:41,520 center coming up in March before we get 57 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:42,960 stuck into the show a quick note from 58 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:45,860 our friends in Victoria the Surf Coast 59 00:02:52,730 --> 00:02:49,680 skeptic camp has been postponed and I 60 00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:52,740 will link to the information in this 61 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:54,950 week's show notes but it will be 62 00:02:59,630 --> 00:02:56,130 rescheduled 63 00:03:03,920 --> 00:02:59,640 have no fear Surf Coast skeptic camp is 64 00:03:05,180 --> 00:03:03,930 being postponed for the moment well 65 00:03:08,180 --> 00:03:05,190 that's enough for me at the moment I'm 66 00:03:10,910 --> 00:03:08,190 going to run downstairs those cats 67 00:03:11,690 --> 00:03:10,920 Henrietta and ward they had to breakfast 68 00:03:13,940 --> 00:03:11,700 this morning 69 00:03:17,410 --> 00:03:13,950 I gave them some breakfast they weren't 70 00:03:20,270 --> 00:03:17,420 happy mm-hmm gave them another breakfast 71 00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:20,280 lucky mugs I'm gonna run downstairs have 72 00:03:26,790 --> 00:03:22,500 some breakfast for myself while I do 73 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:26,800 that I hope you enjoy the skeptics urns 74 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:34,210 [Music] 75 00:03:45,509 --> 00:03:36,890 [Applause] 76 00:03:48,910 --> 00:03:45,519 [Music] 77 00:03:51,250 --> 00:03:48,920 and joining me now from South Los 78 00:03:54,339 --> 00:03:51,260 Angeles California the United States its 79 00:03:56,890 --> 00:03:54,349 market would hello mark hello Richard 80 00:03:58,569 --> 00:03:56,900 how are you I'm very well it's very good 81 00:04:00,850 --> 00:03:58,579 to catch up with you we do see each 82 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:00,860 other from time to time normally at 83 00:04:05,380 --> 00:04:03,170 conventions and things last night last 84 00:04:08,020 --> 00:04:05,390 time was great in San Francisco we had a 85 00:04:10,210 --> 00:04:08,030 good good day that was a good good time 86 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:10,220 we certainly did we certainly didn't 87 00:04:17,170 --> 00:04:14,260 wasn't that long ago now the reason I'm 88 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:17,180 giving you a call over them wonders of 89 00:04:22,659 --> 00:04:19,400 the Internet is I've been told by a 90 00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:22,669 little bird called susan gerbic yeah 91 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:25,550 that you're extending or you've written 92 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:27,530 more or you're doing more with your book 93 00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:29,570 called psychic blues now for people who 94 00:04:34,779 --> 00:04:31,280 don't know about that book can you give 95 00:04:38,650 --> 00:04:34,789 us a bit of an overview well psychic 96 00:04:42,670 --> 00:04:38,660 blues is my narrative novel that 97 00:04:45,550 --> 00:04:42,680 basically tracks a time in my life when 98 00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:45,560 I decided I was going to become the 99 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:50,060 world's greatest psychic so but but the 100 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:53,210 idea was to infiltrate that market and 101 00:04:57,879 --> 00:04:55,910 learn the tricks of the trade because 102 00:05:00,520 --> 00:04:57,889 you can't just go up to a psychic and 103 00:05:03,969 --> 00:05:00,530 say hey how did you do that you know you 104 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:03,979 have to insinuate them and with them and 105 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:08,260 I my theory was that most psychics don't 106 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:11,510 have the magic background my background 107 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:14,660 is a magic so what I did is I I 108 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:17,810 basically scanned the scammers I got 109 00:05:23,020 --> 00:05:20,150 these companies thinking that I did the 110 00:05:26,529 --> 00:05:23,030 real thing by using Mentalist effects 111 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:26,539 and because my idea was I wanted to 112 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:29,810 climb as far as I could to the top of 113 00:05:35,770 --> 00:05:32,930 that slagheap known as the psychic 114 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:35,780 business and along the way take lots of 115 00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:38,210 notes so that I could one day write this 116 00:05:47,230 --> 00:05:39,350 book 117 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:47,240 well but it's it's got its conflicted 118 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:49,450 the title they changed the title to 119 00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:51,850 confessions of a conflicted medium 120 00:05:58,870 --> 00:05:54,860 because there were parts that were left 121 00:06:00,460 --> 00:05:58,880 out of the book that was published it 122 00:06:02,650 --> 00:06:00,470 was not taken from my original 123 00:06:04,540 --> 00:06:02,660 manuscript what was taken from my 124 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:04,550 original manuscript but it was edited by 125 00:06:11,230 --> 00:06:08,350 about a third it was taken out ooh 126 00:06:15,130 --> 00:06:11,240 yeah and so a lot of the criticism like 127 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:15,140 that I got was because the publisher 128 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:17,330 feral house wanted the cat main 129 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:21,700 character to be very dark very unlikable 130 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:24,410 antihero and I'm afraid that was 131 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:27,230 slightly misunderstood by so especially 132 00:06:31,990 --> 00:06:29,570 certain people in the skeptic community 133 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:32,000 because they said that's that's who I am 134 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:35,060 right so I wanted to kind of set the 135 00:06:40,990 --> 00:06:37,490 record straight and and another 136 00:06:43,090 --> 00:06:41,000 criticism was that it didn't really go 137 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:43,100 into my personal life you know what were 138 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:46,450 my relationships like what inspired me 139 00:06:52,990 --> 00:06:49,850 why did I do this it was just the 140 00:06:55,060 --> 00:06:53,000 bare-bones tricks of the trade so what I 141 00:06:58,390 --> 00:06:55,070 did is I reverted to the original 142 00:07:01,390 --> 00:06:58,400 manuscript which was written like 15 143 00:07:04,330 --> 00:07:01,400 years ago and I read it and narrated it 144 00:07:07,390 --> 00:07:04,340 and added in sound sound effects and 145 00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:07,400 music cues and just made a better a 146 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:10,820 better project out of it so now it's 147 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:13,970 it's funnier it's funny and it's audio 148 00:07:18,850 --> 00:07:17,090 so people could can listen to it while 149 00:07:20,470 --> 00:07:18,860 they're doing the dishes or jogging or 150 00:07:23,190 --> 00:07:20,480 walking the dog or driving in their cars 151 00:07:25,690 --> 00:07:23,200 or what that's right I'm a big fan of 152 00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:25,700 podcasts of course having being the 153 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:28,040 producer one and audiobooks so that 154 00:07:34,390 --> 00:07:31,360 sounds like a really attractive offering 155 00:07:36,670 --> 00:07:34,400 houses goers in four minutes nine hours 156 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:36,680 and four minutes how's this that's a lot 157 00:07:42,190 --> 00:07:38,210 of reading how is this going to be 158 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:42,200 distributed it right now it's on Amazon 159 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:44,930 audible mm-hm they take that they take 160 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:47,570 it over to Europe and around the world 161 00:07:52,090 --> 00:07:49,970 it's kind of it's up to them 162 00:07:57,370 --> 00:07:52,100 I just downloaded 163 00:07:59,740 --> 00:07:57,380 and now it goes into distribution and I 164 00:08:03,610 --> 00:07:59,750 doesn't go into other languages that I 165 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:03,620 know of yet but it just got okayed two 166 00:08:09,610 --> 00:08:05,810 nights ago so it's it's hitting the 167 00:08:12,460 --> 00:08:09,620 market really happy really happy with it 168 00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:12,470 because it gave me an opportunity to I I 169 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:15,620 did all the all the voices the sitters 170 00:08:22,870 --> 00:08:18,890 the agents the celebrities I did all the 171 00:08:25,030 --> 00:08:22,880 voice impersonations so I had a blast 172 00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:25,040 because I was in a real recording studio 173 00:08:31,420 --> 00:08:28,360 and I work with a very patient person 174 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:31,430 Jackson Church and we just had a great 175 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:33,650 time doing and I had no deadline I said 176 00:08:38,050 --> 00:08:35,210 I'm not gonna hurry through this I'm 177 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:38,060 just gonna do it and have fun and by 178 00:08:43,060 --> 00:08:40,490 this time I'm so sick of the book you 179 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:43,070 know that I think a little bit of my of 180 00:08:49,810 --> 00:08:47,170 my bit nut bitterness but just you know 181 00:08:52,030 --> 00:08:49,820 oxd kind of came through a little 182 00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:52,040 stronger than the first time I read it 183 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:54,260 the first time I read it I recorded it 184 00:09:00,400 --> 00:08:57,370 with my son he did it and we took it to 185 00:09:02,740 --> 00:09:00,410 audible and the sound quality wasn't 186 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:02,750 good enough so I had to redo the whole 187 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:04,640 thing so I figured if I'm gonna redo it 188 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:08,590 I'm gonna do it right absolutely and I 189 00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:11,090 somebody who does an awful lot of 190 00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:14,150 reading which I do by that I mean out 191 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:17,270 loud for podcast I know how frustrating 192 00:09:21,490 --> 00:09:19,760 and lengthy a process it could be 193 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:21,500 because you don't always make it through 194 00:09:26,470 --> 00:09:23,690 a win one take of course you stumble you 195 00:09:29,530 --> 00:09:26,480 get words wrong you ya pronounce things 196 00:09:32,170 --> 00:09:29,540 you put the emphasis wrong the commas in 197 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:32,180 the wrong spot right it's quite a 198 00:09:35,980 --> 00:09:33,290 process isn't it 199 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:35,990 well now it's it's like like the 200 00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:38,510 psychics you see on television the real 201 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:41,660 art of it is the editor a good point and 202 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:44,470 and the guy the guy who was the editor 203 00:09:53,710 --> 00:09:49,750 he just got it and he he made it really 204 00:09:56,170 --> 00:09:53,720 really well done so you know he got all 205 00:09:58,990 --> 00:09:56,180 the pauses and when I wanted to put in 206 00:10:01,300 --> 00:09:59,000 little sound cues and stuff he was very 207 00:10:02,590 --> 00:10:01,310 excited about it so we both had a fun 208 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:02,600 time doing it 209 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:06,410 now I will put a link for our listeners 210 00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:07,850 if they want to download the book I'll 211 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:10,220 put a link in this week's show notes and 212 00:10:15,130 --> 00:10:11,960 I think it would be a very interesting 213 00:10:17,530 --> 00:10:15,140 book to listen to no muck some other 214 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:17,540 people might remember you from some 215 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:19,970 years ago now you were in I think the 216 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:22,010 very first episode of Penn & Teller's 217 00:10:28,690 --> 00:10:25,130 [\h__\h] program that's right I was on 218 00:10:30,970 --> 00:10:28,700 the pilot episode speaking to the dead 219 00:10:33,130 --> 00:10:30,980 yes I remember watching that in 220 00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:33,140 amazement because I hadn't seen anything 221 00:10:37,180 --> 00:10:34,910 quite like that before and of course it 222 00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:37,190 was an enjoyable series what was that 223 00:10:42,070 --> 00:10:39,200 like being taking part in in that very 224 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:42,080 first episode I loved it because they 225 00:10:48,250 --> 00:10:45,050 basically they let me do whatever I want 226 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:48,260 I got on the plane with the the line 227 00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,720 producer to fly from LA to New York and 228 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:53,360 they said how are you gonna bust this 229 00:10:56,860 --> 00:10:55,250 medium and I said well what do you mean 230 00:11:00,520 --> 00:10:56,870 don't you have a script or anything they 231 00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:00,530 said no we're gonna bring this medium in 232 00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:03,350 she's gonna do her thing then we're 233 00:11:06,820 --> 00:11:04,880 gonna have the same audience and you're 234 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:06,830 gonna do your thing but then you're 235 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:08,780 gonna explain that you just made it all 236 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:09,050 up 237 00:11:16,570 --> 00:11:12,770 Wow but along the way I discovered how 238 00:11:18,430 --> 00:11:16,580 the the medium that they had hired I saw 239 00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,440 exactly what she was doing she was 240 00:11:23,170 --> 00:11:21,200 gathering free show from the audience 241 00:11:26,260 --> 00:11:23,180 right in front of everybody 242 00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:26,270 and so of course when she went into her 243 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:29,360 trance she suddenly knew who everybody 244 00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:32,030 wanted to talk to and and then we found 245 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:33,950 out later that some of the main people 246 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:37,310 who got the biggest hits were friends of 247 00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,010 her her book agent you know her so she 248 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:45,200 had the whole she had I think she had 249 00:11:51,490 --> 00:11:48,820 four people out of the 12 people were 250 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:51,500 being Stooges but they didn't even know 251 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:51,890 it 252 00:11:56,140 --> 00:11:54,530 wow that's fascinating how long ago is 253 00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,150 that that was 15 years ago 254 00:12:00,880 --> 00:11:58,880 10 10 15 years hundred something like 255 00:12:03,010 --> 00:12:00,890 that yeah it's hard to remember it's a 256 00:12:04,570 --> 00:12:03,020 classic of course and again it was the 257 00:12:06,970 --> 00:12:04,580 very first episode I saw and it 258 00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:06,980 certainly was an amazement to me to see 259 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:11,870 such naked skepticism on TV it was quite 260 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,410 something 261 00:12:16,450 --> 00:12:13,760 I know I you know I 262 00:12:18,130 --> 00:12:16,460 love the show but is like my in-laws at 263 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,140 the time they thought the language is a 264 00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:21,200 little rough oh well like whoa you like 265 00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:23,390 what you did but who are those guys 266 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:26,390 didn't even know Penn & Teller were but 267 00:12:32,110 --> 00:12:30,170 yeah that was a fabulous I'm afraid I 268 00:12:34,990 --> 00:12:32,120 got a little high on my horse after that 269 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:35,000 because the shows I did after that never 270 00:12:39,370 --> 00:12:37,010 matched up you know a couple of them 271 00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:39,380 were pretty good but that that I think 272 00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:41,870 was a high point and and I'm I credit 273 00:12:48,850 --> 00:12:46,520 that to just being able to improvise and 274 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:48,860 work you know in the moment with the 275 00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,110 crew and the same thing happened when I 276 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:54,320 went to Norway they we did a TV show 277 00:12:58,560 --> 00:12:56,570 there and everything just went you 278 00:13:01,930 --> 00:12:58,570 couldn't have planned it better and they 279 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:01,940 basically didn't have a script either so 280 00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:04,370 you you've you've done some traveling 281 00:13:10,060 --> 00:13:08,080 around and when you do your your 282 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:10,070 appearances around the world is it 283 00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:12,770 mostly focused around psychics and cold 284 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:15,740 reading in the sort of thing yeah well I 285 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:20,210 pray I decided a couple years back that 286 00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:23,930 I mean if it's somebody who wants me to 287 00:13:30,660 --> 00:13:27,620 do peer mentalism I'll do that which is 288 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:30,670 again you just go through the motions of 289 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:33,710 seeming seeming seemingly knowing things 290 00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:36,470 and this and that but for the most part 291 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:38,750 when when I do the skeptical - or what 292 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:40,370 I'll do is I'll come out and I'll play 293 00:13:45,490 --> 00:13:43,430 it in character and I'll blow everybody 294 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:45,500 away so that they're like wait a minute 295 00:13:51,850 --> 00:13:47,930 and then the last ten minutes I say 296 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:51,860 here's what I did right so it's it has a 297 00:13:56,260 --> 00:13:54,530 reveal at the end and it's interests 298 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:56,270 been interesting to me to see different 299 00:14:00,400 --> 00:13:58,250 places I've gone in the world people 300 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:00,410 have different reactions to that in 301 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:03,290 America they can get pissed off because 302 00:14:06,970 --> 00:14:05,210 they feel like they've been manipulated 303 00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:06,980 and they don't like that when you say 304 00:14:12,370 --> 00:14:10,160 hey we just we just pulled pull the wool 305 00:14:14,530 --> 00:14:12,380 over your eyes but when I again when I 306 00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:14,540 was in Norway they thought that was 307 00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:16,310 really great they said this is what 308 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:19,220 needs to be done for a public service we 309 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:21,110 need we need to go out and have people 310 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,330 do this and show how easy it is for 311 00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:25,760 people to not only be fooled but fool 312 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:27,140 themselves 313 00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,010 all right so I did a TV show with Jeff 314 00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:32,959 Probst who's a celebrity out here in 315 00:14:39,540 --> 00:14:36,350 Hollywood and he wanted me to teach him 316 00:14:43,449 --> 00:14:39,550 to be a reader so we set up this fake 317 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:43,459 house and he put makeup on and we had an 318 00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,470 earpiece on and I fed him information 319 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:48,320 that I had backstage like a lot of 320 00:14:52,810 --> 00:14:51,290 psychics do like the peter Popoff thing 321 00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:52,820 that you're familiar with what Randy 322 00:14:57,519 --> 00:14:55,760 expose yes of course yeah so we did that 323 00:14:59,730 --> 00:14:57,529 for the TV show and then we did an 324 00:15:02,590 --> 00:14:59,740 interview segment in the studio and 325 00:15:04,930 --> 00:15:02,600 after I had explained everything and how 326 00:15:06,699 --> 00:15:04,940 terrible it all was he asked the 327 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:06,709 audience as anyone have a quote any 328 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:08,510 questions for mark and a woman in the 329 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:10,970 back raises her hand and says I'd like 330 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:18,100 this is what I'm starting to experience 331 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:22,490 is it doesn't matter if you expose it 332 00:15:26,139 --> 00:15:24,170 people just go ahead and believe 333 00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:26,149 whatever they want and it's like no oh 334 00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:28,820 no not my psychic no he's and I've had 335 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:30,920 people say no he's really psychic he's 336 00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:34,250 just covering it up and so it's like 337 00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:37,430 really hard in America it's been very 338 00:15:43,210 --> 00:15:40,160 hard in Europe there's a much more there 339 00:15:45,810 --> 00:15:43,220 much wiser and probably in Australia to 340 00:15:49,150 --> 00:15:45,820 from what I hope what I gather you know 341 00:15:52,509 --> 00:15:49,160 so so that's been the frustrating part 342 00:15:55,449 --> 00:15:52,519 is you go through a lot of work and it 343 00:15:58,420 --> 00:15:55,459 really I did a thing on Ouija boards and 344 00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:58,430 they ended up at the end of the TV show 345 00:16:03,790 --> 00:16:01,279 called brain games mm-hm and after I 346 00:16:05,819 --> 00:16:03,800 exposed the Ouija board by putting 347 00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:05,829 blindfolds on everybody 348 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:08,720 more people believed in spirits after 349 00:16:18,189 --> 00:16:12,500 that show than before that we're in the 350 00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:18,199 in the in the room so I don't know what 351 00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:20,540 that means I don't get it but but you 352 00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:22,820 know we keep on I keep keep doing it 353 00:16:29,019 --> 00:16:25,519 maybe we're all just paid shills for the 354 00:16:32,110 --> 00:16:29,029 big psychic industry yeah so we just 355 00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:32,120 people want to believe so much that they 356 00:16:39,309 --> 00:16:34,670 just can't accept it it's too much firm 357 00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:39,319 to handle so Susan and I are going to 358 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:40,120 have this new 359 00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:42,250 York Times article you heard about that 360 00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:45,820 right well will it fill fill us in as 361 00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:47,200 much as you can that sounds interesting 362 00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:49,390 okay yeah as much as I can 363 00:16:56,690 --> 00:16:52,180 susan gerbic and i and her group of 364 00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:56,700 gorillas skeptics did a sting on a 365 00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:00,160 medium who will remain unnamed at this 366 00:17:06,569 --> 00:17:03,220 point uh-huh and it was incredibly well 367 00:17:09,420 --> 00:17:06,579 thought out the protocol was extremely 368 00:17:11,610 --> 00:17:09,430 devious right because we knew we were 369 00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:11,620 dealing with somebody who was pretty 370 00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,240 much a match for any investigator and we 371 00:17:22,110 --> 00:17:19,360 caught this guy out red-handed using 372 00:17:24,090 --> 00:17:22,120 facebook information that we planted on 373 00:17:26,790 --> 00:17:24,100 Facebook for him well 374 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,800 we baited baited the hook with all sorts 375 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:29,200 of things that he turned around and used 376 00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:32,230 in his show so we have we have the fake 377 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:34,660 fake book pages on screenshots and then 378 00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:38,890 we have his whole show recorded so this 379 00:17:43,290 --> 00:17:41,200 led to a whole lot of other things and 380 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:43,300 we found this for New York Times 381 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:46,090 reporter who I had worked with before so 382 00:17:50,850 --> 00:17:48,540 it's been a little more than a year 383 00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:50,860 we've been waiting for this to come out 384 00:17:56,370 --> 00:17:53,679 and now both of us just had a session 385 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:56,380 with the fact-checker last week so 386 00:18:00,060 --> 00:17:57,010 they're saying 387 00:18:02,610 --> 00:18:00,070 next Sunday oh that's interesting next 388 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:02,620 Sunday's New York New York Times 389 00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:05,890 Magazine oh it's just it's it's so it's 390 00:18:09,150 --> 00:18:07,630 so great the way the way this has 391 00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:09,160 happened I mean it's taken a long time 392 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:12,780 but if it goes it's gonna really be 393 00:18:17,940 --> 00:18:15,490 something for people to look at and just 394 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:17,950 slap their foreheads you know well what 395 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:20,200 a fascinating willed that you live in 396 00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:23,170 market yeah is and how can people find 397 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:24,910 out a bit more about what you do Mike 398 00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:27,820 and maybe get a copy of that audio book 399 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:34,540 so it's a wwm mark Edward comm is the 400 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:37,450 web's website but if you want to get the 401 00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:40,780 new audio book I'm not selling that at 402 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:44,950 my website you just go to Amazon and or 403 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:48,330 audible and be sure you put in new 404 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:51,370 expanded edition psychic blues new 405 00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:52,690 expanded edition 406 00:18:58,620 --> 00:18:55,060 don't get the old one cuz that's just a 407 00:18:59,940 --> 00:18:58,630 book you want the audiobook now right 408 00:19:01,320 --> 00:18:59,950 there's the clue folks and I'll put a 409 00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:01,330 link in this week's show notes 410 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:03,340 well market would again what a 411 00:19:07,770 --> 00:19:05,890 fascinating world you live in and I hope 412 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:07,780 I see you again in the not-too-distant 413 00:19:25,290 --> 00:19:10,600 future thanks for having me and I'll 414 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:25,300 talk to you again soon today this is dr. 415 00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,890 Kyle Kyle Chris must be proud to be 416 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:28,240 skeptic and you can find out more about 417 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:30,850 me at dr. Kyle calm and get lots of free 418 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:46,860 [Music] 419 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:51,039 as part of our ongoing series of reports 420 00:19:54,850 --> 00:19:53,330 and interviews and articles from the 421 00:19:58,260 --> 00:19:54,860 skeptic magazine the journal from 422 00:20:05,200 --> 00:19:58,270 Australian skeptics we turn to winter 423 00:20:11,769 --> 00:20:05,210 2005 volume 25 number 2 on page 49 an 424 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:11,779 article by Peter booth and at the time 425 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:14,690 of writing the little blurb says Peter 426 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,610 booth has just completed a Bachelor of 427 00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:18,799 Arts majoring in journalism at Griffith 428 00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,260 University he has also studied theatre 429 00:20:27,399 --> 00:20:23,600 and magic which sparked his interest in 430 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:27,409 the topic and the topic is as the title 431 00:20:36,399 --> 00:20:31,840 says under the subtitle of investigation 432 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:36,409 psychic or just sick is there any harm 433 00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:38,130 in psychic acts 434 00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:41,100 [Music] 435 00:20:47,549 --> 00:20:44,559 James Van Praagh says he can talk with 436 00:20:50,370 --> 00:20:47,559 the dead he says he can see into the 437 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,380 future he may even use his powers to 438 00:20:55,529 --> 00:20:52,720 search for an answer to the mysterious 439 00:20:58,620 --> 00:20:55,539 disappearance of Sunshine Coast teenager 440 00:21:00,810 --> 00:20:58,630 Daniel Malcolm and as an aside a couple 441 00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:00,820 of years ago the Daniel Malcolm case was 442 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:04,480 resolved the killer was uncovered the 443 00:21:10,830 --> 00:21:08,049 body was discovered and that was due to 444 00:21:13,169 --> 00:21:10,840 police work Van Praagh 445 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:13,179 is the latest American television 446 00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,690 psychic his television show beyond is 447 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:19,120 every weekday afternoon on the Nine 448 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:21,730 Network and his recent tour of Australia 449 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:24,370 sold-out shows across the country his 450 00:21:28,409 --> 00:21:26,350 show at the Brisbane Convention Centre 451 00:21:31,139 --> 00:21:28,419 netted almost a quarter of a million 452 00:21:34,169 --> 00:21:31,149 dollars in ticket sales alone his 453 00:21:36,899 --> 00:21:34,179 three-hour performances consisted of 40 454 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:36,909 minutes of his life story 20 minutes of 455 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:38,260 questions from the audience 456 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:41,289 30 minutes of guided meditation and an 457 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:44,529 hour of the supposed psychic readings 458 00:21:49,769 --> 00:21:47,529 that have made Van Praagh famous almost 459 00:21:52,169 --> 00:21:49,779 all audience members who commented on 460 00:21:54,330 --> 00:21:52,179 the shows gave a belatedly positive 461 00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:54,340 review thoroughly convinced Van Praagh 462 00:21:59,220 --> 00:21:56,529 had made contact with the world of the 463 00:21:59,850 --> 00:21:59,230 spirits however some skeptics were not 464 00:22:02,759 --> 00:21:59,860 impressed 465 00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:02,769 mark Mayer demonstrates unexplainably 466 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:05,620 paranormal abilities on a daily basis 467 00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:08,830 but Maher is not a psychic he's an 468 00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:11,919 entertainer an illusionist who as part 469 00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:14,169 of his show talking with the dead or 470 00:22:19,470 --> 00:22:16,929 lying to the living at Melbourne Trade 471 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:19,480 Centre demonstrates the tricks of the 472 00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:19,809 trade 473 00:22:25,860 --> 00:22:21,760 he says psychics like James Van Praagh 474 00:22:28,529 --> 00:22:25,870 can use to deceive vulnerable people may 475 00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:28,539 earn attended one of Van Praagh shows 476 00:22:34,740 --> 00:22:31,840 and was disgusted by what he saw Maher 477 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:34,750 says it made my stomach turn to have to 478 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:38,289 watch it it was dreadful the subject 479 00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:41,289 matter was just trivialized and thrown 480 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:44,440 away the real actual pain and grief of 481 00:22:50,029 --> 00:22:46,809 the people who were there to get some 482 00:22:52,529 --> 00:22:50,039 sort of connection looking for hope and 483 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:52,539 desperately trying to have closure on 484 00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:53,350 their pain 485 00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,470 was just washed over in light of 486 00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,720 entertainment mr. Maer describes what 487 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:01,120 Van Praagh does as quote emotional rape 488 00:23:05,970 --> 00:23:03,610 in quote it was like watching a woman 489 00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:05,980 being physically attacked and not being 490 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:07,540 able to do anything about it 491 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:09,310 mayor says there is a general 492 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:11,770 misconception that the psychic industry 493 00:23:17,490 --> 00:23:14,830 does no harm actually it does a lot of 494 00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:17,500 harm he says he describes a woman in the 495 00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:19,630 audience at van Prague's Melbourne show 496 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:22,390 in her early 20s she stood up during the 497 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:24,850 psychic reading and asked Van Praagh if 498 00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:26,890 he could contact her daughter who had 499 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:29,860 died at a young age in a car crash Van 500 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:31,810 Praagh proceeded to apparently 501 00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:34,570 communicate with the deceased young girl 502 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:38,440 who he said was sitting next to her the 503 00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:40,690 young woman said she was the driver of 504 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:42,550 the car and asked if her daughter 505 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:47,050 forgave her quote oranges take oranges 506 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:50,070 to her grave she wants oranges and quote 507 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:52,690 tears were streaming down the woman's 508 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:55,330 face later Van Praagh told the woman her 509 00:23:59,610 --> 00:23:57,130 daughter wanted her to know there was 510 00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,620 nothing to forgive mayor says this 511 00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:01,840 incident was a typical example of van 512 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:04,420 Prague's desecrating of someone's 513 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:06,700 memories of their deceased loved ones 514 00:24:13,020 --> 00:24:10,930 what pain must this woman be in she 515 00:24:15,630 --> 00:24:13,030 should be seeing trained emotional 516 00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:15,640 counselors not someone who is pretending 517 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:16,990 to see her dead daughter 518 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:20,140 now she can go away and think well that 519 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:23,200 was amazing why do I want to stop 520 00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:25,660 talking to my daughter now I'll keep 521 00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:27,550 going to psychics forever for the next 522 00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:29,800 50 or 60 years and spent thousands and 523 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:32,560 thousands of dollars he's screwed over 524 00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:35,050 their memories and their love Mayer 525 00:24:41,070 --> 00:24:38,260 attributes the apparent psychic gift Van 526 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Praagh has to a psychological technique 527 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:43,690 known as cold reading a combination of 528 00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:45,970 making generalized statements posing 529 00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:48,430 questions as statements and feeding back 530 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:50,980 information he has already been told 531 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:53,050 because we are more the same than 532 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:53,770 different 533 00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:56,110 things that seem quite Pacific and like 534 00:25:00,930 --> 00:24:58,240 they only apply it to either me or you 535 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:00,940 actually in reality applied to a 536 00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:03,190 majority of people they ask a leading 537 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:05,200 question based on common life 538 00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:06,610 experiences to 539 00:25:10,830 --> 00:25:09,040 tract specific information and combine 540 00:25:13,049 --> 00:25:10,840 this with things like popular first 541 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:13,059 names common causes of death or 542 00:25:17,610 --> 00:25:15,160 illnesses and other statistical 543 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:17,620 probabilities it makes the people feel 544 00:25:22,830 --> 00:25:20,170 that the reading is really personal and 545 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:22,840 just for them audience members vote van 546 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:25,690 Prague's television tapings are required 547 00:25:29,850 --> 00:25:27,460 to sign contracts prohibiting them from 548 00:25:32,970 --> 00:25:29,860 speaking to the media about what they 549 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:32,980 saw however audience members for his 550 00:25:39,090 --> 00:25:36,130 Brisbane Convention Center show were not 551 00:25:42,150 --> 00:25:39,100 required to sign anything and char 552 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:42,160 Vaughn Christensen who paid 110 dollars 553 00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:44,770 for her ticket was quick to express her 554 00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:47,080 disappointment most of the people are 555 00:25:53,130 --> 00:25:49,900 here today as a result of them having 556 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:53,140 some severe emotional trauma or loss of 557 00:25:55,770 --> 00:25:55,330 loved ones and they're looking for 558 00:25:59,100 --> 00:25:55,780 something 559 00:26:01,460 --> 00:25:59,110 I think he's exploiting that after the 560 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:01,470 show they were selling blue stars for an 561 00:26:08,130 --> 00:26:05,590 intimate meeting for 500 people they 562 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:08,140 paid 35 dollars a head and basically 563 00:26:12,659 --> 00:26:10,390 what they get for their money is they 564 00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:12,669 can shake his hand or he can sign a book 565 00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:16,270 for them I met Lady Diana I've met 566 00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:18,880 Michael Jackson I've met Elton John I've 567 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:22,240 met Bill Clinton lots of significant 568 00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:24,760 people not one of them charged to shake 569 00:26:31,169 --> 00:26:28,480 their hand I just find that ridiculous I 570 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:31,179 think that it's idolizing another human 571 00:26:36,450 --> 00:26:33,730 being they are so desperate to touch 572 00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:36,460 this man so why the need for an audience 573 00:26:42,570 --> 00:26:39,640 contract Mac Mayer suggests that the 574 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:42,580 deceptive editing of the shows may have 575 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:44,410 something to do with it they take up to 576 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:46,660 six hours of taping to produce 11 577 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:49,210 minutes of airtime that 11 minutes of 578 00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:52,690 airtime is then edited creatively to 579 00:26:57,659 --> 00:26:55,360 give the best impression on top of that 580 00:27:00,150 --> 00:26:57,669 you're allowed to have questionnaires 581 00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:00,160 before the audience goes in you're 582 00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:01,870 allowed to have microphones in the 583 00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:04,480 audience before the show starts for an 584 00:27:09,090 --> 00:27:06,700 hour while they're all chatting amongst 585 00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:09,100 themselves and just to help Pat it out 586 00:27:13,169 --> 00:27:11,500 if you get stuck you're allowed to have 587 00:27:15,570 --> 00:27:13,179 actors in the audience 588 00:27:17,580 --> 00:27:15,580 Mayer says people generally do not show 589 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:17,590 the same level of skepticism towards 590 00:27:20,910 --> 00:27:20,050 psychic television shows as they do for 591 00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:20,920 other media 592 00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:22,780 they're so critical about things like 593 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:25,480 that band is made up and this is not 594 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:28,270 real reality TV and as soon as this 595 00:27:33,630 --> 00:27:31,110 comes on their logic goes out the window 596 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:33,640 that's a normal emotional response 597 00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:35,890 across the board when you are feeling in 598 00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:41,350 pain other views victors Zammit is a 599 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:43,270 Sydney based lawyer an author of the 600 00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:46,090 book a lawyer presents the case for the 601 00:27:52,410 --> 00:27:49,270 afterlife Zammit is a staunch defender 602 00:27:55,620 --> 00:27:52,420 of end Prague's psychic claims Zammit 603 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:55,630 says the closed-minded skeptics accuse 604 00:28:01,680 --> 00:27:58,210 him of fraud but they cannot prove it 605 00:28:03,540 --> 00:28:01,690 it's closed-minded skepticism Zemin says 606 00:28:05,310 --> 00:28:03,550 a visit to a psychic where he apparently 607 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:05,320 made contact with his deceased father 608 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:08,770 mother and grandmother changed his views 609 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,050 on the subject I didn't get along with 610 00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:13,840 my father after half an hour of asking 611 00:28:18,810 --> 00:28:15,940 lots and lots of questions to confirm 612 00:28:21,390 --> 00:28:18,820 some certain incidents from when he was 613 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:21,400 alive with meek and nobody on earth 614 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:24,730 could know about those they were 100% 615 00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:29,170 correct I said okay what do you want and 616 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:33,670 he said I came for forgiveness I cannot 617 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:35,650 progress in the world that I am in 618 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:38,410 unless you forgive me for being such a 619 00:28:44,850 --> 00:28:42,400 lousy father I got that and for me the 620 00:28:48,299 --> 00:28:44,860 experiential is far more important and 621 00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:48,309 even science James Van Praagh was 622 00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:50,950 unavailable to comment on his show but 623 00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:53,679 his manager and producer of beyond John 624 00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:55,990 King invited any skeptic to come to 625 00:29:01,140 --> 00:28:58,240 their shows and still not believe I'm a 626 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:01,150 skeptic myself King says if you see one 627 00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,130 or two of these things it's pretty hard 628 00:29:08,190 --> 00:29:05,200 to deny that there's something there 629 00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:08,200 even for the biggest cynic or the 630 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:10,809 biggest skeptic when asked if James Van 631 00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:13,090 Praagh claims of psychic powers are fake 632 00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:16,360 King responds I produce those shows I 633 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:18,700 put them together so I know that those 634 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:21,370 shows are real I know that there's 635 00:29:27,930 --> 00:29:26,050 nothing rigged missing people King says 636 00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:27,940 that James Van Praagh has previously 637 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:30,040 worked with police departments and the 638 00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,290 American government and revealed that 639 00:29:36,659 --> 00:29:34,799 Van Praagh may assist authorities 640 00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:36,669 investigating the disappearance of 641 00:29:40,859 --> 00:29:38,769 Daniel Malcolm in December last year I 642 00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:40,869 actually received a newspaper article 643 00:29:44,189 --> 00:29:42,820 about that today it's quite possible 644 00:29:46,349 --> 00:29:44,199 that he Van Praagh 645 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:46,359 may be interested in doing something 646 00:29:51,569 --> 00:29:48,849 with that this is a prospect that mark 647 00:29:54,209 --> 00:29:51,579 Mayer finds particularly disturbing the 648 00:29:56,849 --> 00:29:54,219 idea of psychic detectives is a myth he 649 00:29:59,069 --> 00:29:56,859 says if you look up any police records 650 00:30:01,589 --> 00:29:59,079 for anywhere there's not been a single 651 00:30:05,129 --> 00:30:01,599 case of any psychic solving or helping 652 00:30:07,469 --> 00:30:05,139 any crime ever Scotland Yard goes on the 653 00:30:09,779 --> 00:30:07,479 record saying they don't use it at all 654 00:30:13,289 --> 00:30:09,789 and it has done nothing 655 00:30:15,059 --> 00:30:13,299 the LAPD goes on record saying they 656 00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:15,069 actually did test to see how accurate 657 00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:17,769 they were and they will not use them 658 00:30:23,699 --> 00:30:20,289 the FBI don't have any files on it 659 00:30:25,949 --> 00:30:23,709 whatsoever neither for or against as 660 00:30:28,709 --> 00:30:25,959 soon as a high profile child goes 661 00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:28,719 missing they the psychics prey on it 662 00:30:34,109 --> 00:30:31,329 because it's great advertising and it's 663 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:34,119 absolutely disgusting executive officer 664 00:30:39,059 --> 00:30:37,089 of the Australian experience compares 665 00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:39,069 claiming to be able to find missing 666 00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:41,769 children to the actions of the hoax 667 00:30:47,099 --> 00:30:45,039 emailer David Charles brine who was 668 00:30:49,639 --> 00:30:47,109 recently arrested for claiming he knew 669 00:30:52,489 --> 00:30:49,649 the whereabouts of Daniel Malcolm and 670 00:30:55,889 --> 00:30:52,499 demanding money for his return 671 00:30:58,829 --> 00:30:55,899 William says if you give police a lead 672 00:31:01,109 --> 00:30:58,839 they have to follow it up they psychic 673 00:31:03,899 --> 00:31:01,119 detectives probably convinced themselves 674 00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:03,909 they're helping the police it's cruel 675 00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:06,399 I don't give a damn if you are self 676 00:31:10,769 --> 00:31:08,559 deluded in those cases your self 677 00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:10,779 delusion is causing pain to somebody 678 00:31:14,939 --> 00:31:12,940 else claims by psychics to know the 679 00:31:18,509 --> 00:31:14,949 whereabouts of their son have plagued 680 00:31:20,579 --> 00:31:18,519 mr. and mrs. Malcolm before I received a 681 00:31:22,019 --> 00:31:20,589 few letters from psychics some of them 682 00:31:24,829 --> 00:31:22,029 have been very distressing 683 00:31:27,689 --> 00:31:24,839 Denise Malcolm told Australian story and 684 00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:27,699 as an aside Australian story is the 685 00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:29,679 long-running television program on the 686 00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:32,559 ABC network they say that Daniel may be 687 00:31:37,949 --> 00:31:35,049 in a local bond in the local area close 688 00:31:40,619 --> 00:31:37,959 by or in a country town I've had one 689 00:31:43,079 --> 00:31:40,629 letter saying Daniels head's been shaved 690 00:31:45,749 --> 00:31:43,089 and he hasn't got many days left 691 00:31:48,390 --> 00:31:45,759 Bruce tells me to put them aside and 692 00:31:52,830 --> 00:31:48,400 don't look at them but they do go 693 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:52,840 through my mind what if it's true no 694 00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:56,410 regulation the psychic industry is not 695 00:32:01,830 --> 00:31:58,690 bound by the same regulations as other 696 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:01,840 consumer industries Matt mayor believes 697 00:32:06,299 --> 00:32:03,640 tougher restrictions should be 698 00:32:07,710 --> 00:32:06,309 introduced to monitor the industry if 699 00:32:10,380 --> 00:32:07,720 you want to be a psychic 700 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:10,390 you need no qualifications you need no 701 00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:12,790 history you don't need to have any 702 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:16,180 police checks we don't need to prove or 703 00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:18,610 substantiate any of your claims he says 704 00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:21,070 if people are going to psychics and they 705 00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:22,600 want to I'm not saying they're not 706 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:25,870 allowed to or they shouldn't if you want 707 00:32:29,910 --> 00:32:27,970 to go you just need to go with the full 708 00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:29,920 disclosure that this is entertainment 709 00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:32,740 it's made up and it's fun and if that's 710 00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:35,140 the case then no problem celebrity 711 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:37,030 psychic John Edward presents the 712 00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:38,890 following disclaimer during the credits 713 00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:42,280 of his television show crossing over the 714 00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:45,040 materials and opinions presented in this 715 00:32:49,970 --> 00:32:47,320 program by John Edward and other third 716 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:49,980 parties including statements predictions 717 00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:53,290 documents photos and video footage comes 718 00:32:58,260 --> 00:32:55,750 solely from the respective third-party 719 00:33:00,060 --> 00:32:58,270 sources and did not necessarily reflect 720 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:00,070 the views or opinions of the producer 721 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:02,410 and are not meant or intended to be a 722 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:05,530 form of advice instruction suggestion 723 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:08,260 counsel or factual statement in any way 724 00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:11,250 whatsoever and are intended as 725 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:14,350 entertainment mock mayor lodged a 726 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:16,450 complaint with consumer affairs in 727 00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:17,140 Victoria 728 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:19,300 regarding a lack of such a disclaimer 729 00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:21,250 during John Edwards febri tour of 730 00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:23,620 Australia he has so far been 731 00:33:28,490 --> 00:33:25,960 unsuccessful in his efforts to get 732 00:33:31,919 --> 00:33:28,500 authorities to closer investigate 733 00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:31,929 psychic claims Mary Williams said the 734 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:33,640 Australian skeptics once brought a case 735 00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:34,990 to the Department of Fair Trading 736 00:33:39,930 --> 00:33:37,840 against a supposed psychic telephone 737 00:33:42,210 --> 00:33:39,940 hotline run by the famous Australian 738 00:33:44,430 --> 00:33:42,220 psychic the late Athena 739 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:44,440 star woman we had received evidence by 740 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:46,660 planting a stooge in there that people 741 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:49,210 could get a job there with no tests to 742 00:33:54,299 --> 00:33:51,370 see if they were psychic and they were 743 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:54,309 given a script to read and told not to 744 00:33:59,250 --> 00:33:56,710 depart from it William said they were 745 00:34:01,260 --> 00:33:59,260 also told to keep people on the phone as 746 00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:01,270 long as they could and the average was 747 00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:02,240 18 minutes 748 00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:05,780 at $5 a minute they the Department of 749 00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:07,550 Fair Trading refused to do anything 750 00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:10,790 about it they said you're getting into 751 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:12,470 the area of people's beliefs 752 00:34:17,860 --> 00:34:14,930 I said regardless of whether they 753 00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:17,870 believe it or not the fact is what they 754 00:34:23,140 --> 00:34:20,510 were doing is fraud but they wouldn't 755 00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:23,150 touch it mr.william says despite any 756 00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:25,190 evidence that Van Praagh cannot really 757 00:34:29,350 --> 00:34:26,780 make contact with the afterlife 758 00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,360 he and other psychics will continue to 759 00:34:33,790 --> 00:34:31,280 prosper the only thing that will bring 760 00:34:35,830 --> 00:34:33,800 it down is for the entire humanity to 761 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:35,840 suddenly become critical rational 762 00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:38,510 thinkers he says they're still selling a 763 00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:40,550 simple message they're selling hope and 764 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:42,680 the rational world is selling you the 765 00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:45,530 hard bloody reality we've definitely got 766 00:34:52,450 --> 00:34:50,120 the harder sell note this piece was 767 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:52,460 originally written by Peter booth as an 768 00:34:58,240 --> 00:34:55,250 investor give report for a university 769 00:35:01,390 --> 00:34:58,250 course entitled quote feature writing 770 00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:01,400 unquote and later adapted as an audio 771 00:35:06,430 --> 00:35:04,670 story for a radio course the radio 772 00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:06,440 version of the story was nominated by 773 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:09,350 the course convener for an Aussie award 774 00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:17,090 for junior journalism and that was 775 00:35:24,430 --> 00:35:20,510 psychic or just sick by Peter booth and 776 00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:24,440 you can find that on page 49 of the 777 00:36:02,090 --> 00:35:28,430 skeptic magazine volume 25 number 2 by 778 00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:13,060 [Music] 779 00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:16,490 hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy 780 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:19,320 cast each week Fraser Cain and I take 781 00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:21,240 our listeners on a fact-based journey 782 00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:23,460 through the cosmos with our weekly 783 00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:26,190 podcast we explain not just what we know 784 00:36:31,850 --> 00:36:28,980 but how we know what we know about this 785 00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:31,860 universe that we share check us out at 786 00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,320 astronomy cast calm and look for us in 787 00:36:51,110 --> 00:36:36,720 itunes google play and wherever you 788 00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:51,120 download podcasts see online that looks 789 00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:52,230 good enough to eat 790 00:37:05,420 --> 00:36:58,490 or does it here's the diet skeptic 791 00:37:07,610 --> 00:37:05,430 mandelino ville and joining me now on 792 00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:07,620 the line it's Mandy Lee Noble hello 793 00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:11,310 Mandy Lee hello Richard how are you I'm 794 00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:13,320 doing really well it's great to be back 795 00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:16,020 in Australia although I think I'm gonna 796 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:17,670 be heading stateside in the 797 00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:19,290 not-too-distant future but more about 798 00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:21,510 that a bit later on I thought I'd ring 799 00:37:26,420 --> 00:37:24,000 you up Skype you up messing you up 800 00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:26,430 however we're doing this because I 801 00:37:32,660 --> 00:37:29,430 understand you apart from your regular 802 00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:32,670 diet sceptic work you have been involved 803 00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:34,800 with our friends susan gerbic what can 804 00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:39,180 you tell me well like many people I have 805 00:37:44,210 --> 00:37:41,460 been over the years listening to Susan's 806 00:37:48,590 --> 00:37:44,220 reports and on skeptic zone and on other 807 00:37:51,550 --> 00:37:48,600 podcasts and thinking I should do some 808 00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:51,560 editing and become a griller skeptic and 809 00:37:59,180 --> 00:37:55,980 when I was at skeptic on last year I met 810 00:38:02,600 --> 00:37:59,190 two of the great editors Julie and 811 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:02,610 Harold Barents and they encouraged me to 812 00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:04,710 join a Louis bit concerned about the 813 00:38:10,430 --> 00:38:06,540 training but they offered some help and 814 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:10,440 now I'm a graduated editor so you are 815 00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:14,310 now a graduated wiki editors guerrilla 816 00:38:19,070 --> 00:38:15,720 skeptic ed 817 00:38:21,290 --> 00:38:19,080 let's get to get it on wiki and because 818 00:38:23,180 --> 00:38:21,300 we run lots of promos for it and people 819 00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:23,190 find out about it so please tell me 820 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:24,900 about the experience of learning how to 821 00:38:29,210 --> 00:38:27,570 become an editor it was actually really 822 00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:29,220 good and and for anyone who's 823 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:31,800 considering it you learn a lot of skills 824 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:35,130 that you can use in other parts of your 825 00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:37,050 work or whatever it is you do because 826 00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:39,660 you learn a lot of a few word processing 827 00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:41,940 skills and IT skills which was quite 828 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:42,420 good 829 00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:45,690 you mentored on the way so Susan catches 830 00:38:49,790 --> 00:38:47,670 up with you and checks in with hey going 831 00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:49,800 and and the other skeptics will as well 832 00:38:57,020 --> 00:38:54,240 the other editors mm-hm and so you do a 833 00:38:59,240 --> 00:38:57,030 little some lots of little exercises 834 00:39:01,849 --> 00:38:59,250 that are examples of what an editor 835 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:01,859 might do on Wikipedia and along the way 836 00:39:06,290 --> 00:39:04,410 you'd learn the rules so there's our 837 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:06,300 it's sort of a little bit about rules 838 00:39:12,260 --> 00:39:10,170 unto itself type of platform and once 839 00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,270 you get that you sort of have a couple 840 00:39:17,690 --> 00:39:15,119 of projects at the end that you do and I 841 00:39:20,359 --> 00:39:17,700 just finished my final project which is 842 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:20,369 to finish either do a complete new page 843 00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:24,330 of a Wikimedia subject or do a major 844 00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:30,270 rewrite so and and roughly how long did 845 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:32,310 all this take until you at reach the 846 00:39:36,740 --> 00:39:35,250 stage you are now well for me probably 847 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:36,750 like most people have seen a bit of 848 00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:40,170 Spitz and start so it was like so took I 849 00:39:44,359 --> 00:39:42,180 think the whole process about three or 850 00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:44,369 four months I would get through quite a 851 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:46,950 few things if I had an afternoon free 852 00:39:52,130 --> 00:39:49,890 and then I'd be you know away from it 853 00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:52,140 for a couple of weeks and and Susan be 854 00:39:57,859 --> 00:39:54,680 dropping a few hints going how he going 855 00:39:59,420 --> 00:39:57,869 but they were really really good and 856 00:40:00,820 --> 00:39:59,430 encouraging and they understand that 857 00:40:03,620 --> 00:40:00,830 people have other lives too and 858 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:03,630 eventually I got to the end and I was 859 00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:05,490 really lucky because when I looked at 860 00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:07,200 the project list there was one that 861 00:40:12,020 --> 00:40:09,900 really spoke to me so and of course if 862 00:40:13,579 --> 00:40:12,030 you have your own project that you want 863 00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:13,589 to do is your final assignment you can 864 00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:15,720 do that as well but I was just like.he 865 00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:18,150 that I went yep that's the one for me 866 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:22,380 and I wrote a new or updated a Wikipedia 867 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:25,170 page that was a great experience yes now 868 00:40:29,309 --> 00:40:27,690 that's very interesting because in 869 00:40:31,410 --> 00:40:29,319 discussions before 870 00:40:33,269 --> 00:40:31,420 you you showed me the page you've been 871 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:33,279 working on and it's a very important 872 00:40:37,859 --> 00:40:35,890 page I feel and it's something that 873 00:40:39,779 --> 00:40:37,869 people should visit and have a look at 874 00:40:42,269 --> 00:40:39,789 and this revolves around somebody who 875 00:40:43,739 --> 00:40:42,279 called themselves and I used sadly the 876 00:40:47,309 --> 00:40:43,749 past tense called themselves the 877 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:47,319 wellness warrior please tell us more yes 878 00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:49,690 so when I got the final assignment 879 00:40:55,229 --> 00:40:52,209 because season of course is over to Mary 880 00:40:57,029 --> 00:40:55,239 Karr she didn't realize how I'm well 881 00:40:59,009 --> 00:40:57,039 known the Wellness warrior was in 882 00:40:59,849 --> 00:40:59,019 Australia and the first thing I said was 883 00:41:02,279 --> 00:40:59,859 oh well 884 00:41:05,699 --> 00:41:02,289 Jessica Hynes Coe was a it's a household 885 00:41:09,779 --> 00:41:05,709 name even now and that she had a really 886 00:41:15,269 --> 00:41:09,789 big impact on Australia and quite sadly 887 00:41:18,089 --> 00:41:15,279 she passed away in 2015 no and it was a 888 00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:18,099 there was a really much of there was a 889 00:41:24,059 --> 00:41:20,319 few couple of outlining comments about 890 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:24,069 her sort of points of data about what 891 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:27,690 her story was but there was definitely 892 00:41:32,969 --> 00:41:30,729 some other things to add to it that I 893 00:41:36,509 --> 00:41:32,979 thought were really important and also 894 00:41:38,609 --> 00:41:36,519 to she's a notable person so to answer 895 00:41:39,779 --> 00:41:38,619 people's questions about her and I think 896 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:39,789 some of the questions that a lot of 897 00:41:45,689 --> 00:41:42,249 people have is you know what happens 898 00:41:47,939 --> 00:41:45,699 that someone who lives in a country 899 00:41:50,539 --> 00:41:47,949 where they have the most amazing medical 900 00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:50,549 treatment available to them for free 901 00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,049 that they turn their back on that when 902 00:41:59,849 --> 00:41:55,440 they need it most so I really wanted to 903 00:42:02,969 --> 00:41:59,859 give a very neutral account of Jessica's 904 00:42:04,859 --> 00:42:02,979 life and the impact that she had that 905 00:42:07,289 --> 00:42:04,869 made her a notable person and a 906 00:42:09,839 --> 00:42:07,299 candidate for Wikipedia page 907 00:42:12,359 --> 00:42:09,849 yes and and again of course I say it is 908 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:12,369 sad I mean nobody wishes somebody like 909 00:42:17,249 --> 00:42:14,249 that to pass away but she had 910 00:42:19,489 --> 00:42:17,259 significant health problems but it seems 911 00:42:21,959 --> 00:42:19,499 that she just took the path of 912 00:42:23,789 --> 00:42:21,969 alternative medicine and just being well 913 00:42:26,279 --> 00:42:23,799 and good happy thoughts and all this 914 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:26,289 sort of thing and in her case sadly it 915 00:42:31,289 --> 00:42:29,170 really didn't work out yeah and I mean 916 00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:31,299 it was never going to be a really good 917 00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:33,369 ending for Jessica's she had a very 918 00:42:38,999 --> 00:42:36,190 aggressive cancer but she you know the 919 00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:39,009 odds were in her favor - to be alive at 920 00:42:42,780 --> 00:42:41,049 the 10-year mark had she taken a 921 00:42:44,910 --> 00:42:42,790 conventional medicine 922 00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:44,920 you know root but it would have required 923 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:47,140 quite evasive treatment and quite 924 00:42:53,390 --> 00:42:51,850 evasive surgery so when with my talking 925 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:53,400 of the story I just wanted to outline 926 00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:57,130 the decisions she made but also the 927 00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:00,160 people who influenced her because I 928 00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:02,440 think that's really important is to know 929 00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:04,300 that there are people out there who are 930 00:43:08,940 --> 00:43:07,030 providing information that that might 931 00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:08,950 lead to people to not to take 932 00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:11,590 conventional cancer treatments so I just 933 00:43:16,590 --> 00:43:14,470 wanted to outline you know the people 934 00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:16,600 that she was listening to at the time 935 00:43:21,450 --> 00:43:18,940 she had a very famous blog that's now 936 00:43:25,050 --> 00:43:21,460 deleted but I was really lucky in that 937 00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:25,060 in lots of other people quoted directly 938 00:43:29,490 --> 00:43:26,830 from her blog so I was really able to 939 00:43:31,650 --> 00:43:29,500 piece together a very full story of what 940 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:31,660 was happening for Jessica at the time I 941 00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:34,960 also wanted to give a good detail what 942 00:43:40,350 --> 00:43:37,750 was what the outcomes were for her for 943 00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:40,360 those choices and along that quality of 944 00:43:47,310 --> 00:43:43,960 life access as well so a lot of people 945 00:43:49,770 --> 00:43:47,320 talk about Jessica's choices in the fact 946 00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,780 that oh well maybe she might have she 947 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:52,000 was probably going to eventually you 948 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:54,490 know die from her cancer anyway and she 949 00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:57,370 might have made that ten year mark but I 950 00:44:01,830 --> 00:43:59,200 think another important thing to think 951 00:44:03,690 --> 00:44:01,840 about with taking alternative choices is 952 00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:03,700 the quality of life that they provide 953 00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:05,830 and there's a bit of a mistake that they 954 00:44:10,890 --> 00:44:08,590 provide a better quality of life but 955 00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:10,900 that's not always the case so there's 956 00:44:15,150 --> 00:44:12,580 there's some stuff there about her own 957 00:44:18,090 --> 00:44:15,160 reflections and how she was coping with 958 00:44:20,970 --> 00:44:18,100 her her cancer as it progressed not 959 00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:20,980 having conventional treatment it sounds 960 00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:23,200 like a fascinating page mandy i'll 961 00:44:27,660 --> 00:44:25,030 certainly focus on you know certainly 962 00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:27,670 link to the page in question at 963 00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:30,270 Wikipedia in this week's show notes and 964 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:32,710 Mandy I look forward to many more 965 00:44:39,660 --> 00:44:35,530 interesting diet skeptic reports coming 966 00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:39,670 up in 2019 yes I found been as you know 967 00:44:45,420 --> 00:44:42,310 Richard I'm myself I've been travelling 968 00:44:47,540 --> 00:44:45,430 around Australia doing some training for 969 00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:47,550 other health professionals in 970 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:50,710 evidence-based nutrition and along the 971 00:44:55,950 --> 00:44:53,290 way I've been running into quite a few 972 00:44:59,609 --> 00:44:55,960 interesting nutritional claims and I was 973 00:45:03,870 --> 00:44:59,619 Dean so once I get home and unpack my 974 00:45:06,420 --> 00:45:03,880 bags I'll be pulling up some of those 975 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:06,430 things that have snapshots with with my 976 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:09,450 phone phone camera while I've been at 977 00:45:14,430 --> 00:45:11,650 different places around Australia and 978 00:45:17,310 --> 00:45:14,440 maybe unpack some of those products and 979 00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:17,320 their claims about nutrition lots to 980 00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:20,020 look forward to in 2019 from mandelino 981 00:45:25,050 --> 00:45:21,940 who've died skipping but for now 982 00:45:26,910 --> 00:45:25,060 Mandy Lee thank you very much thanks a 983 00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:26,920 lot Richard and look forward to talking 984 00:45:31,530 --> 00:45:28,200 to you soon 985 00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:36,850 [Music] 986 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:38,580 [Applause] 987 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:41,410 aliens are probing people and mutilating 988 00:45:46,980 --> 00:45:44,830 cows 9/11 was an inside job 989 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:46,990 I'm the oppa to clean up my athlete's 990 00:45:53,810 --> 00:45:50,530 foot vaccines cause autism but also 991 00:45:55,859 --> 00:45:53,820 physical mattis lawn is definitely real 992 00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:55,869 we all have friends and family who 993 00:46:00,270 --> 00:45:58,240 believe these things and much more well 994 00:46:02,099 --> 00:46:00,280 if you're a rational thinker who is 995 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:02,109 tired of arguing on social media and 996 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:03,730 never getting anywhere we have a 997 00:46:06,810 --> 00:46:04,810 solution for you 998 00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,820 join the guerrilla skepticism on 999 00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:09,280 wikipedia team and we will teach you how 1000 00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:11,680 to add reliable scientific and skeptical 1001 00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:13,599 information to the world's number-one 1002 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:16,750 source of information Wikipedia we write 1003 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:18,730 new articles and improve existing ones 1004 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,250 we remove pseudoscience paranormal and 1005 00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,440 augment claims substituting the actual 1006 00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:25,599 facts and we operate in many languages 1007 00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,270 we've already reached tens of millions 1008 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:30,640 of people searching for information but 1009 00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:32,650 as you can imagine we can never do 1010 00:46:38,310 --> 00:46:35,710 enough so please join us all you need is 1011 00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,320 a PC a Facebook account and the desire 1012 00:46:42,359 --> 00:46:40,720 to help educate the planet in fact 1013 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:42,369 you'll be educating the world while you 1014 00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:46,210 sleep contact us at e is Oh W team at 1015 00:46:56,690 --> 00:46:49,990 gmail.com guerrilla skepticism the time 1016 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:01,860 here's Maynard spooky action at the 1017 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:06,570 well it's certainly good to be back in 1018 00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:08,050 Australia and it's good to catch up 1019 00:47:11,580 --> 00:47:10,270 again with may not hello Manor it's 1020 00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:11,590 great to have you here in the Maynard 1021 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:14,800 international studios annex it is it is 1022 00:47:19,170 --> 00:47:16,690 because I'm glancing over towards the 1023 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:19,180 shelf and amongst the treasures you have 1024 00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,490 of course are almost the complete set of 1025 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:24,160 Batman figures for the 1960s and who 1026 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:25,930 else has the novelization of the 1027 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:28,810 original Michael Crichton Westworld 1028 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:31,090 movie the one with Yul Brynner in it I 1029 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:32,770 saw that just a few months ago it's 1030 00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:33,970 actually a really good movie yeah 1031 00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:35,620 everyone reckons the series is great but 1032 00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:37,120 look yeah it can be great but I've got 1033 00:47:41,010 --> 00:47:38,800 that kind of time you know that was one 1034 00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:41,020 of the inspirations for the Terminator 1035 00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:43,180 really I wouldn't surprise me there yeah 1036 00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:44,830 well you're Brenner was a lot of 1037 00:47:50,820 --> 00:47:47,680 inspirations when I wonder when I think 1038 00:47:52,410 --> 00:47:50,830 I go what would your Brynner in the king 1039 00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:52,420 and I have done he would have you would 1040 00:47:56,450 --> 00:47:54,310 have gone and all these children would 1041 00:47:59,640 --> 00:47:56,460 have come out that's no help at all it's 1042 00:48:00,900 --> 00:47:59,650 help what do I do in this crisis aren't 1043 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:00,910 kids now that's not going to help yeah 1044 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:03,010 no Yul Brenner and the king and I don't 1045 00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:04,450 use that as an inspiration just think 1046 00:48:07,590 --> 00:48:05,920 what would Batman do what would Batman 1047 00:48:09,930 --> 00:48:07,600 do but if you do have the chance to see 1048 00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:09,940 the original West world the movie that's 1049 00:48:18,210 --> 00:48:15,910 also got Richard what's-his-name how 1050 00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:18,220 people people remember but as you can 1051 00:48:23,490 --> 00:48:20,830 see look at that that's got a 32-page 1052 00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:23,500 black and white or Victoria Shaw was in 1053 00:48:29,370 --> 00:48:25,510 it this will tell us to keep going keep 1054 00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:29,380 going there James Brolin and we should 1055 00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:31,030 bit Richard Benjamin of course you would 1056 00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:32,710 all know his great work from what was 1057 00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:35,350 that sighs quark quark rocky was 1058 00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:36,280 fantastic 1059 00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:38,980 Wow there you James Brolin well I 1060 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:40,990 thought the best work Hiva did was some 1061 00:48:46,470 --> 00:48:43,930 pee-wee's big adventure paging mr. 1062 00:48:49,530 --> 00:48:46,480 Herman now of course you've got some 1063 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:49,540 something coming up relatively soon here 1064 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:51,490 in Sydney which skeptics own fans might 1065 00:48:56,340 --> 00:48:53,530 like to come along to if you're thinking 1066 00:48:58,530 --> 00:48:56,350 I want some rushing flushing pumping and 1067 00:49:00,090 --> 00:48:58,540 jumping you better be at the red bar 1068 00:49:03,150 --> 00:49:00,100 which is in glib just up the road from 1069 00:49:05,010 --> 00:49:03,160 where Tim and I am glebe in gluant row 1070 00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,020 36 Cleveland Road for maintenance Love 1071 00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:07,520 Shack that's right Love Shack Bay 1072 00:49:11,859 --> 00:49:09,200 I'll be playing a retro night there of 1073 00:49:13,330 --> 00:49:11,869 music one night only only one night and 1074 00:49:15,250 --> 00:49:13,340 if it doesn't go well there will not be 1075 00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:15,260 another one so just don't assume there's 1076 00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,520 going to be another one to go to because 1077 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:19,040 that often is not the case in Sydney by 1078 00:49:23,140 --> 00:49:20,210 the way overseas listens 1079 00:49:25,660 --> 00:49:23,150 Sydney nightlife not so much these days 1080 00:49:27,310 --> 00:49:25,670 very pretty city can't travel round it 1081 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:27,320 by public transport very easily and you 1082 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:29,690 can't go out after 10:30 at night easily 1083 00:49:33,790 --> 00:49:31,850 either now there's new laws against that 1084 00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:33,800 but you can still go to Maynard's Love 1085 00:49:37,690 --> 00:49:36,260 Shack again this is in glee but where 1086 00:49:39,370 --> 00:49:37,700 can people find out about this mean oh 1087 00:49:41,740 --> 00:49:39,380 look there's an event just look for main 1088 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:41,750 ads Love Shack on Facebook or you can go 1089 00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:43,850 to the bunga bunga Facebook page the 1090 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:46,460 Maynard Facebook page or may not come to 1091 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:48,770 know you yes we will have the details of 1092 00:49:52,510 --> 00:49:49,970 that up there shortly and like I said 1093 00:49:54,910 --> 00:49:52,520 16th of March between 8 and 12 and it's 1094 00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:54,920 only $10 and look if you fly in from 1095 00:50:00,070 --> 00:49:57,110 overseas the Canadian and the American 1096 00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:00,080 dollar is worth so much it could well 1097 00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,480 you know it'll well make up for the AFA 1098 00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,640 you had to pay because $10 is like $2 1099 00:50:09,370 --> 00:50:07,040 American or Canadian isn't now it's well 1100 00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:09,380 yes and look I might pay you a player 1101 00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:11,240 request and we'll be playing everything 1102 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:13,310 I was just gonna play 80s or play 90s of 1103 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:15,170 a pirate let's play we think from the 1104 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:16,970 later half of the 20th century so that's 1105 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:21,170 right music from 1951 on Wow so I might 1106 00:50:24,460 --> 00:50:22,850 even play some Andrews Sisters as well 1107 00:50:26,830 --> 00:50:24,470 so who knows what could go on that night 1108 00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:26,840 there's not enough Andrews Sisters being 1109 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:28,609 played anymore and I will be screening 1110 00:50:32,050 --> 00:50:31,010 Raquel Welch and Ann Margaret videos on 1111 00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:32,060 the big screen 1112 00:50:35,290 --> 00:50:33,830 not the sound just the video there so if 1113 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:35,300 you've got some dance moves you're 1114 00:50:38,890 --> 00:50:36,530 lacking the dance moves you can just 1115 00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:38,900 copy theirs come along to me nerds Love 1116 00:50:42,340 --> 00:50:40,160 Shack and then what was that date again 1117 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:42,350 that's the 16th of March between 8 and 1118 00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:44,810 12 sunny 10 bucks come on and the place 1119 00:50:49,570 --> 00:50:47,390 only holds 50 people so we are know we 1120 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:49,580 haven't got big expectations as long as 1121 00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:51,890 we get over 7 it'll kind of look busy as 1122 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:53,990 long as our moves around a lot and the 1123 00:50:57,940 --> 00:50:55,850 link of course on this week's show notes 1124 00:50:59,680 --> 00:50:57,950 great I can't see you there people and 1125 00:51:14,430 --> 00:50:59,690 like yeah look you know what I said 1126 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:23,589 [Music] 1127 00:51:27,710 --> 00:51:25,910 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1128 00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:27,720 zone now here's a note for people in 1129 00:51:32,839 --> 00:51:30,420 California in the San Francisco area and 1130 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:32,849 the Bay Area I'm going to be well I'm 1131 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:34,650 scheduled to give a talk for the Bay 1132 00:51:41,329 --> 00:51:37,970 Area skeptics on the 14th of March 1133 00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:41,339 details will appear as soon as I get 1134 00:51:48,529 --> 00:51:45,470 them to hand but the Bay Area skeptics 1135 00:51:50,089 --> 00:51:48,539 friends of the skeptic zone and personal 1136 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:50,099 friends of mine for many years now and 1137 00:51:57,049 --> 00:51:52,650 I'll be speaking about Australia's 1138 00:51:58,430 --> 00:51:57,059 psychic detectives coming up in probably 1139 00:52:00,979 --> 00:51:58,440 in Berkeley I think that's where they 1140 00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:00,989 normally have those Bay Area skeptics 1141 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:04,529 meetings so keep an eye out on that for 1142 00:52:11,479 --> 00:52:08,130 the 14th of March thank you to my new 1143 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:11,489 patreon sandpeople recently have come on 1144 00:52:17,809 --> 00:52:15,210 board for $5 a month which is fantastic 1145 00:52:23,089 --> 00:52:17,819 thank you so much really helped put the 1146 00:52:26,569 --> 00:52:23,099 show out on in your ears and for the 1147 00:52:29,029 --> 00:52:26,579 technically-minded these days 99% of the 1148 00:52:32,989 --> 00:52:29,039 show indeed what I'm traveling in 100% 1149 00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:32,999 of the show is edited and produced on I 1150 00:52:38,269 --> 00:52:36,630 devices on iPad and iPhone when I'm here 1151 00:52:40,970 --> 00:52:38,279 back in the studio I'm using a different 1152 00:52:45,499 --> 00:52:40,980 microphone but on the run in the field 1153 00:52:47,359 --> 00:52:45,509 as it were I can use my devices with an 1154 00:52:50,299 --> 00:52:47,369 attachment a zoom mic attachment 1155 00:52:51,890 --> 00:52:50,309 sometimes sometimes the microphone in 1156 00:52:55,999 --> 00:52:51,900 the iPhone is good enough for field 1157 00:52:58,660 --> 00:52:56,009 reports and all the editing mixing sound 1158 00:53:01,009 --> 00:52:58,670 mixing is done on the iPad using a 1159 00:53:04,999 --> 00:53:01,019 application called ferrite which I found 1160 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:05,009 to be very very good indeed I'm tempted 1161 00:53:09,170 --> 00:53:06,690 to take this microphone I'm using at the 1162 00:53:11,739 --> 00:53:09,180 moment which is a Zen Heiser shotgun 1163 00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:11,749 microphone out on the field with me - 1164 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:15,359 hmm but for this week oh I've just 1165 00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:26,420 open the window to the studio it's 1166 00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:28,710 always a race against the unknown here 1167 00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:30,120 because I live not far from the airport 1168 00:53:34,820 --> 00:53:32,940 and every now and then when I'm doing a 1169 00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:34,830 voiceover or recording I have to stop 1170 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:37,710 every three minutes for a380s and seven 1171 00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:40,050 seven sevens and I don't know what that 1172 00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:41,030 one is 1173 00:53:46,460 --> 00:53:44,160 when the planes flying overhead 1174 00:53:53,330 --> 00:53:46,470 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1175 00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:53,340 from Sydney Australia you've been 1176 00:54:02,300 --> 00:53:55,380 listening to the skeptic zone podcast 1177 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:02,310 please visit our website at wwlp.com tax 1178 00:54:08,810 --> 00:54:04,770 and to access the bat catalogue of 1179 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:08,820 episodes going back to 2008 you can 1180 00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:10,530 follow the skeptic zone podcast on 1181 00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:13,590 twitter at skeptic zone visit our 1182 00:54:19,250 --> 00:54:15,870 facebook page or leave a review on 1183 00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:19,260 itunes you can also support the skeptic 1184 00:54:24,980 --> 00:54:22,620 zone via patreon or paypal the skeptic 1185 00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:24,990 zone podcast is an independent 1186 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:27,150 production the views and opinions 1187 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:29,130 expressed on the skeptic zone are not 1188 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:31,290 necessarily those of Australian skeptics 1189 00:54:45,970 --> 00:54:34,210 or any other sceptical organisation 1190 00:54:50,750 --> 00:54:48,590 hello to the people who listen on after 1191 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:50,760 the music this week we're going to be 1192 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:53,730 playing the dice game for those of you 1193 00:55:00,500 --> 00:54:57,050 new every week or every other week I 1194 00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:00,510 roll a 10 sided die and see if you can 1195 00:55:05,810 --> 00:55:03,510 use your predicting powers to predict 1196 00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:05,820 what numbers will come up this week I'm 1197 00:55:12,370 --> 00:55:08,310 going to use one of my other die dice 1198 00:55:16,460 --> 00:55:12,380 dice it's a 30 sided one a 30 sided die 1199 00:55:18,140 --> 00:55:16,470 which I picked up at actually I think I 1200 00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:18,150 picked this one up at games in Berkeley 1201 00:55:23,930 --> 00:55:20,460 or was it Dragon Con many years ago I've 1202 00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,940 got a 60 sided one here too but I think 1203 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:25,200 that's a little bit extravagant for 1204 00:55:29,690 --> 00:55:26,850 today so I'm gonna roll it three times 1205 00:55:31,490 --> 00:55:29,700 and we'll see if you can use your 1206 00:55:38,060 --> 00:55:31,500 predicting power to guess a number from 1207 00:55:41,210 --> 00:55:38,070 zero no from one in fact from 1 to 30 so 1208 00:55:50,180 --> 00:55:41,220 here we go I'm gonna roll the dice or 1209 00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:50,190 the die and sweets first number is 28 28 1210 00:56:00,490 --> 00:55:53,640 so use your predicting power again good 1211 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:00,500 shake and it's come to rest on number 23 1212 00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:02,970 how's your predicting going are you 1213 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:06,480 psychic one more number predict away 1214 00:56:12,020 --> 00:56:09,290 here it comes 1215 00:56:14,660 --> 00:56:12,030 rolling rolling rolling oh and it 1216 00:56:22,790 --> 00:56:14,670 stopped on number 9 so this week's